42: Dr. Cheryl Scheurer Shares Experiences and Lessons Learned from the Trickle Down of Addiction
“How did I do it? Well, I just kept learning and paying attention to my inner emotions … It takes practice.” –Dr. Cheryl Scheurer
We all put a fight to live, but not everybody wins. From the moment we start breathing, obstacles, one after another, will tell us to stop. But, as for our guest, she survives the battle with the words quoted above. Be introduced to Dr. Cheryl Scheurer, an accomplished woman of many gifts. She is a doctor in Financial Management, a book author and editor, a minister, a producer and a host. But behind all these successes is a painful past. Addiction and abuse was like a shadow she couldn’t run away from. It was there with her family, then with her husband, then with her own daughter. Her story tells the story of many out there who are groaning in pain from the hands of addiction. Allow her to share her story of how she helped herself and how she helps others.
Addiction thrives in troubled conditions and that’s exactly where we are. It’s terrifying to even think about how many individuals are falling victim to addiction, pulling families further apart. Learn how to gather courage and break the cycle of unhealthy codependency. This way, you may save both yourself and your family. Even if you are alone in your fight, you can get through it by knowing how to manage stress and where to find your threshold of change. Also, turn unconsciousness to consciousness and get past the fear around money. All these and more from today’s episode!
Highlights:
03:28 Cheryl’s Fight to Live
09:35 Gathering Up Courage
12:23 Breaking the Cycle of Codependency
19:37 Being a Mom to a Child with Addiction
26:24 Managing Stress
29:37 Helping People Get to Awareness
34:21 Threshold of Change
36:49 Helping People Get Past the Fear Around Money
Nobody can live your life but you, not even addiction. #FightforLife! Do not miss today’s episode on #unhealthycodependence #thresholdofchange #moneyaddiction #wealthtransformation and #loveunconditionally with our host @TFRSolution and Dr.… Share on X
Connect With Cheryl
Website: https://www.cherylscheurer.com/
Email: drcherylscheurer@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cheryl.scheurer/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/cherylscheurer/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkPNXs8O3zhpqpnNznAsmNA
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheryl-scheurer-ph-d-b6615614
Telephone: (415) 246-6881
Resources:
Books:
Wealth Transformation- Integrity, Integrity, Integrity by Dr. Cheryl Scheurer
Prodependency- Moving Forward from Codependency by Dr. Robert Weiss
Quotes:
06:41 “People put down other people to make themselves look better.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
09:17 “You can’t be a wimp in this lifetime…It takes courage. It takes a lot of courage to get through all of these really unhealthy experiences that we go through to survive them.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
12:28 “How did I do it? Well, I just kept learning and paying attention to my inner emotions … It takes practice.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
13:38 “It’s when you start … hooking into that behavior, then that to me, that’s not healthy codependent.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
15:18 “People who are codependent can ‘make decisions’ …as a way to please them or as a way to not escalate some kind of argument, or as a way to get their own needs met.” –Jeff Jones
24:34 “So one of the ways that I understand addiction is that the world we live in, the culture we live in, is actually a crucible for addiction to grow and thrive and to get a foothold in people.” –Jeff Jones
28:28 “All I can say is, I’ve done the best I could do.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
33:21 “Unfortunately, it takes traumatic things to happen for people to change.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
36:00 “When you have that internal, spiritual,higher than your own ego, because our egos play games with us… then you can get through anything.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
36:50 “People don’t even want to talk about money.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
38:37 “When we acknowledge the dark parts of ourselves and put them in the light, we have more potential to go through our own transformation.” –Jeff Jones
40:46 “Life is short… So it’s so important to live with unconditional love. But you’ve got to start with yourself first. If you can’t love yourself unconditionally, then it’s almost impossible to love others unconditionally.” –Dr.Cheryl Scheurer
Got ideas? Perhaps a future podcast? Schedule time with Jeff here: https://meetme.so/jeffjones
Transcriptions
This episode of Families Navigating Addiction and Recovery is sponsored by The Family Recovery Solution where we recognize that families are the biggest stakeholder in this addiction crisis. And we see that families can be a stronger part of the solution in their own family, in their communities, and in our world. We know that addiction in the family is not the fault of the family. We know that family engagement increases the potential of change happening sooner and positive outcomes lasting longer, as well as navigating healing connections in the family now and well into the future. So we’ve created an online platform for families to safely navigate this journey at their pace. Check out www.thefamilyrecoverysolution.com
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JEFF: Okay. So welcome everyone, this is Jeff Jones with Families Navigating Addiction and Recovery Podcast. And today my guest is Doctor Cheryl Scheurer and she is a Ph.D. in financial management. She is a book author. She is a minister, very unique individual and how she’s combined things together here and also she grew up with addiction in her family. And she is the mom of a child who has addiction. So she has experience in a number of different roles with addiction. So welcome Cheryl.
CHERYL: Thank you very much Jeff. I really appreciate and I’m honored to be here.
JEFF: Yeah, thank you. Thanks. And so from my little intro of you, are there things that you would like to add or modify?
CHERYL: Well, as far as the financial management piece, I actually wrote a book called Wealth Transformation. And in that and I’m sure this had something to do with the way I grew up, but the unconscious relationship with wealth, because wealth, I mean in corporate America, in Washington DC, there’s definitely an addiction to money.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: So I like to be able to approach from that angle, you know, using the skills that I’ve learned being in Al-Anon and AA, even though I wasn’t practicing drinker or drug addicted person, I wanted to understand that.
JEFF: Sure. Yeah. Well thank you very much. And so if we could start, if you could just tell me a little bit about your story? Who you are as a person, maybe some of like growing up stage and then going from there?
CHERYL: Sure, sure, sure. Well, I’ll start at the beginning. I was an RH baby, which is when your father has positive RH and your mother has negative RH. And after the second child, and I was the baby, I was the third child. When they cut the cord, I was actually, the blood was dying so I was dying. Fortunately, they took me and transfused my blood. So I know that’s affected me for life, you know, it has to, because I’m such an energetic person and I’d like to thrive and make things happen probably cause I had to fight for my life to begin with.
JEFF: Wow. So tell me, what does RH mean?
CHERYL: Well that’s your blood factor.
JEFF: Okay.
CHERYL: Yeah. I don’t remember the actual words for the rh, but that everybody has an rh factor. It’s the type of blood that you have. And the year I was born, they came up with an antiserum. So I’m happy for that. So it doesn’t happen anymore.
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: Anyway, so I kind of commanded special attention from the very beginning of my life and I have an older brother, older sister. And I know my dad, you know, I was very close to my dad and then my mother, it became real obvious that she had a drinking problem. She was an addict. And I remember her even sharing with me that at 13, which I can’t imagine, but at 13 she blocked out cause she drank something. She drank some alcohol and she blocked out. So anyway, she obviously didn’t have the skills to understand that and went on with her disease got worse and worse. And I guess probably because I was the last one at home, her disease had progressed pretty intense and –
JEFF: Yeah – yeah.
CHERYL: – I was the the scapegoat. I was the one she abused more than anybody, maybe because I look like her. I have no clue. I haven’t looked at that, but I was determined how I wasn’t going to be like her. And there was a lot of abusive language and, you know, she slapped me a couple of times because she couldn’t, I’d stand up to her and she couldn’t handle it, but, and so she’d slap me. But there was always this mental and emotional abuse around her, you know. I could never reach her expectations or she would put me down or whatever. And you know, in retrospect, I realized that she didn’t have the skills to heal herself. So, you know, as you know, as a psychotherapist that, you know, people put down other people to make themselves look better.
JEFF: Right. Yeah.
CHERYL: You know, at one point my dad had open heart surgery and he was recovering. And my mother, I mean, that time in my life was hell, actually, because I was trying to help take care of my dad and in essence, out of default, because my dad couldn’t take care of her, which he was very codependent. I ended up then, it’s like: “Ah!” I just like wanted to throw my arms up and say: “I don’t want any part of this cause I’ve been abused and why should I be taking care of her when she’s abused me all these years.” And at one point, I mean, I’m going to share this one thing.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: My sister came home and she came to the door, because my mom and I had gotten in a fight and I left. And my sister came to the door with their hand with two bullets shells in it, you know. I said: “What are you doing?” And she goes: “Well this is all your fault. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And my mom actually had tried to commit suicide. She shot off the gun and it didn’t go off. And then she pointed it away from her and it did go off. I mean, that was a scary moment.
JEFF: Oh my god!
CHERYL: I wasn’t there. Yeah. My dad was just like speechless. And my sister was blaming me because we got on an argument. So, you know, those things I try not to remember. But on the other hand, you know, now, and I’ve attracted addicted people, especially in intimate relationship. I’ve attracted that.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: My former husband.
JEFF: So, Cheryl then growing up, I mean even just like the birth story, you were a fighter from like, you know, maybe the time you came out of the womb or something.
CHERYL: Absolutely.
JEFF: And then your position in the birth order being the youngest, it sounds like you were exposed to your mother’s addiction, progressed the farthest along of any of the kids who’ve experienced it. And so you got verbal abuse, slap, scapegoated and put down, you know. So I mean, one thing that I’m hearing is that you survived that and you’re a fighter.
CHERYL: Absolutely. I mean, you can’t be a wimp in this lifetime.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: You know, it takes courage. It takes a lot of courage to get through all of these really unhealthy experiences that we go through to survive them.
JEFF: Sure. So Cheryl, let me ask a question. Like thinking back on that time, is there anything that you can like in your particular situation, a tribute like that courage to like your ability to connect with that courage. Anything?
CHERYL: Well, you know, the one thing that I totally feel blessed, you know, as much as I, you know, knew that my Dad was codependent, but he had his own issues around his heart. He was recovering from rheumatic fever as a child. So his heart was never 100%. And anyway, my Dad was my blessing.
JEFF: I see. Yeah. Yeah.
CHERYL: My Dad and I were so close that he, you know, he really tried to make up for my mom –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – even though that doesn’t really happen, but it does help happen on some levels. So, you know, he always encouraged me.
JEFF: Yeah. So that, yeah. To have an adult, a caretaker see you and recognize your strengths and love you unconditionally. I mean, it’s like, yeah. That’s a gift.
CHERYL: That to me has carried me through life.
JEFF: Yeah – yeah.
CHERYL: I feel totally blessed. I mean, I lost him way too young. He passed away in 79 and way too soon. He didn’t even make it to his 58th birthday.
JEFF: Aha.
CHERYL: So, you know, so, but he still comes around every year and I say that kind of tongue in cheek because some people might think I’m a little nuts, but he used to whistle when you do yard work or be outside. He whistle. He was a happy person.
JEFF: Aha.
CHERYL: That meadowlark comes around every fall to remind me that my Dad is always there. [laughs]
JEFF: Oh! Beautiful. Beautiful. What a nice memory and connection to remind you of your dad and also remind you of the strength.
CHERYL: Oh, totally.
JEFF: Your own inner strength. Yeah. Very, very cool. And then so you were talking about then, you were attracted to men who were in an addictive cycle and –
CHERYL: Well you know my –
JEFF: – child.
CHERYL: Yeah. The codependent behavior. And I’ve done a lot of work around that. You know, what’s not healthy in codependence and I believe that I’ve broken that cycle.
JEFF: How did you do it?
CHERYL: How did I do it? Well, I just kept learning and paying attention to my inner emotions. When I would be in a situation where, you know, I felt uncomfortable –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – and I felt resentful. It’s like, no, I can’t do this. This isn’t for my highest best. So I just kept, it takes practice.
JEFF: So, and then Cheryl, I mean the word codependence is, there’s a lot of different definitions for that. And I’m just curious, when you say codependence, what does that mean to you? If you could say a little bit more –
CHERYL: Oh, sure.
JEFF: – listening to have a better understanding.
CHERYL: Well to me, you know, when we’re in relationship, you know, it’s having healthy boundaries. But when codependence is when, you know, you’re like, oh, it’s hard to explain actually. But when you’re in a relationship with somebody and they’re like not doing totally healthy behavior –
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: – and you go along with it like, and I’m saying more extreme, extreme behavior.
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah – yeah.
CHERYL: And you don’t want to be an enabler, you know? I mean this comes down to the addiction piece, you know. I don’t want to be an enabler to a drug addict or an alcoholic, which he was a drug addict. You know, so it’s like paying attention. You know, the most important thing is just being aware in every moment that you possibly can.
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: And your conscious mind.
JEFF: Right. Yeah.
CHERYL: So it’s when you start doing things that some, you know, like if you’re close to somebody and you start allowing those behaviors or you start hooking into that behavior, then that to me that’s not healthy codependence.
JEFF: Yeah. So I mean my understanding of codependence is there’s -it comes from like the 80’s and it’s essentially identifying childhood trauma being triggered by present events and you know, people acting in like in ways that their past is dictating their present choices. Kind of like what you were saying of, you know, making decisions like ideally kind of hearing something and knowing right away: “Oh no, like I’m not going to support that because that is an infringement of my boundaries. That’s an infringement of who I am.” And people who are codependent can “make decisions”, on another words not expressing who they are, what their needs are and share that with the other person instead go along with what the other person wants as a way to, you know, please them or as a way to not escalate some kind of argument or as a way to get their own needs met.
CHERYL: Absolutely. What a wonderful way to explain it. And you know, I believe, and I’m certainly trying to master it. And it probably will take a lifetime, but being able to communicate that in a loving way.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: It doesn’t escalate.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: Then it takes practice.
JEFF: Oh my gosh! It takes a huge amount of practice. And I know, I mean, I know there’s plenty of people like yourself, myself. My hand is raised, I grew up with addiction in my family to where, you know, childhood stuff can get triggered by present moment stuff. So I totally, I get that not just intellectually, but experientially. And also, I know there’s addiction in the family where, you know, the parents don’t have that kind of history and it’s like not all addiction in the family means parents are being codependent, you know.
CHERYL: Yeah. Right.
JEFF: Specifically with how easy it is to follow a doctor’s prescriptions to opiates and get like prescriptions to that, take more than what they’re perscribed and when the prescriptions are cutoff, then get into heroin or, and get some phentenol or something like that. So, it’s like the way we thought about addiction, like back in the 80’s and 90’s, I mean myself, thinking about it like that now is a little problematic because, you know, the potential addiction has just increased, increased, increased.
CHERYL: Oh my! Well, you know, you’re talking about the parenting, my grandmother, my mother’s mother, she was a preemie and she had one leg that was four inches shorter than the other, so she was considered –
JEFF: Oh my gosh!
CHERYL: – crippled. She was, you know, but she became very dependent on morphine. And I don’t know when it started, but my grandmother basically, OD’d and killed herself. She didn’t want to be a burden to anybody, so she OD’d.
JEFF: Oh my gosh!
CHERYL: And I know my mother carried that.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: My mother didn’t commit suicide –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – but, you know, God bless my mom. She went through rehab after my dad died, but she never went to AA. So she was always a dry alcoholic.
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah – yeah. Oh my gosh. That like that story you just told about your grandmother and then the impact that must have had on your mom and then how she dealt with that impact. Like on some level it’s like she was carrying the grief and pain of, you know, this situation with her mom.
CHERYL: Yap. Yap. And she never felt loved.
JEFF: Yeah. And –
CHERYL: So she doesn’t know how to give it.
JEFF: Right. Wow. That, oh my gosh! So it’s like, it isn’t necessarily about blaming a parent without really understanding the environment that they grew up in.
CHERYL: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, to take that to the next step. I’m having to deal with my daughter who is addicted. She’s made, you know, whether it’s an unconscious choice or whatever. I mean she knows the background that I come from.
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: Maybe not all the details.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: But you know, I have had to set healthy boundaries with her as well –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – because I don’t want to get sucked in to –
JEFF: Right. Right.
CHERYL: – the codependent behavior or enabling behavior.
JEFF: Yeah. Wow. So I mean, one thing that you said there about your daughter, it’s like really caught my attention and that is, she knows your history like, so she knows that addiction is in her family history and just knowing that alone doesn’t necessarily change someone’s behavior.
CHERYL: No. And her father, you know, unfortunately she, well I say fortunately, but because he was bipolar and addictive and you know, addicted. And she’s never met him live in, person and she’s 28 so, you know, she never had a father around. She had the ghost, the beautiful ghost of my dad. And there were other males. I have a brother and I had a cousin, you know, where male role models, but it’s not the same.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: I think she’s, you know, she’s hasn’t filled that hole.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: And so she goes to the drugs. I mean, that’s my interpretation. There may be a lot more to it, but, you know.
JEFF: And so when like as a mom, when did you first notice there was problems?
CHERYL: Oh, wow! When she was about 15, maybe in 14. I know. Oh my gosh. She would steal liquor from a store. And of course, I’ve made her go back. And, you know, and then she was working later, a few years later and she stole some liquor from the restaurant she was working for.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: Oh my god! The police got involved. You know, I did everything in my power to try to almost shocker into realization, but that of course didn’t work. I say shocker because I got police involved because I didn’t have a father around, her father around or my dad around or you know.
JEFF: Right. And police are really good at holding boundaries and being very strict and forthcoming with what’s okay and what’s not okay and what the consequences are if, you know, someone does what is not okay.
CHERYL: Right, right. So that was my thoughts of getting that, you know, involved, but I noticed the addiction and then she was hanging out with addicted kids, you know. And I mean, I fought it, and fought it, and fought it. And even though she’s always been really good about working and she’s a chef, which –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – of course isn’t a good place for her because booze is, you know, you can get alcohol just like that when you’re working.
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: So I don’t know. I just asked God, I pray every day.
JEFF: So when you say I fought it, I fought it, I fought it. What does that mean? What did you do?
CHERYL: Well, I tried to help her see what she was doing –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – from a standpoint of having to deal with myself and having to deal with the addiction and then talk about it with her.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: But it really didn’t impact her cause she wasn’t ready. You know, I just tried to make her aware and you know.
JEFF: Yeah. And it’s, I mean, were there other people in the family that kind of got together and delivered a unified message to her or where you pretty much on your own there?
CHERYL: I was on my own because my nephew has had a drinking and drug issue. I mean, it’s not over the top, but she would talk to him and, you know, he has the same issues. So they were codependent for one another. And I think my brother drinks, he drinks every day. I don’t know to what extreme, but it’s like I have those addictive personalities in my family, you know? And it’s been very frustrating.
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah – yeah. Well, so one of the ways that I understand addiction is that the world we live in, the culture we live in is actually a crucible for addiction to grow and thrive and to get a foothold in people. And actually it is all around us in larger organizations and kind of the way things work. And so some of those things can be modeled to us and trickle down from one generation to the next generation. And everybody in each generation is trying to do their best to survive in those conditions. So like economic conditions is an example. And I know any time there is a disruption in the normal family life cycle that is potentially traumatic to people in the family.
And the normal family life cycle is, you know, you go to school, get educated, go to college, find someone to marry, fall in love, have children, raise the children, they go to college and they have a family and then the parents get older, go through an aging process and they eventually die. And then the next generation kind of takes over. And so in theory that’s like the normal family life cycle. And there’s so many things, especially today that happened outside of that, specifically when, you know, children die before their parents for instance. And that can be problematic or anything really out of the norm of the family life cycle. And then it’s like how people manage that, the strengths that they have to manage those changes. And Cheryl, just listening to you, I can tell that you’ve done a fair amount of work on yourself to manage stress.
CHERYL: You know, it’s kind of ironic because when I got married, I got pregnant right away and within three months I ended up leaving my husband –
JEFF: Aha.
CHERYL: – because I saw the abuse that was happening, not only to me but to our animals. And I thought, well, he’s going to do that to my child. So at that pivot time in my life, I really made a commitment to be an example for my daughter.
JEFF: Oh!
CHERYL: And so being an example of, you know, I mean, I did workshops. I did therapy. I did fellowship. I mean, I delve into the depths of the, you know, the recovery for me for being –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – you know, a child of an alcoholic. You know, I did everything I could. And you know, I can’t blame myself for my daughter’s behavior. I mean, that’s something I’ve had to, you know, I mean I wasn’t.
JEFF: That’s huge.
CHERYL: Yeah. And I can’t.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: You know, sometimes I feel guilty because there wasn’t a father around and I didn’t search to get a husband to be a father for my daughter.
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: So, you know, it’s been a challenge.
JEFF: Sure.
CHERYL: But, you know, all I can say is I’ve done the best I could do.
JEFF: Yeah, I hear that. I hear that. And so it’s like, you know, one of the things that I remember from, you know, our prior conversations and some of the research that I did about you is the, like with the wealth management stuff. You kind of help people take what’s unconscious and to where they start to become conscious of it. And these are my words and correct me if you have better ways to say this, but it’s like to remove blocks that get in the way from, you know, people having a life where they contribute how they want to and money flows from that contribution.
CHERYL: No, I think that’s really a poignant conversation because, you know, until you’re ready, until people are really ready emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically to make those changes. But, you know, if I can shift one thought towards healthy behavior then I’ve done what I – why I’m doing it, that’s why I’m doing this –
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – is to help people get to that level.
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah – yeah. Well, and too, I can see the overlap between, you know, raising people’s awareness about what’s unconscious behavior that is preventing, you know, the flow of money or wealth, but also the overlap between unconscious behavior that I would term as, you know, family patterns, family addiction patterns that happen through, you know, family members, really best attempts to try to cope with what’s happening in the family. And a lot of times they end up doing what they know and they do the same thing over and over again.
CHERYL: Right, right. I totally agree with you. And, you know, I guess our society, you know, they don’t, media, the advertising, it basically feeds in to addictive behavior. As far as I’m concerned, you know, and if you have that propensity, like, you know, women buying things, you know, there’s people that are hoarders and they buy things and that’s an addiction and men do it too. You know?
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: I mean that’s, you know, the force to get millions and billions and so on. It’s like when is enough, you know? And so, you know, it’s just being aware, being aware of that because –
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: – if that make you happy. [laughs] You know? Are you really happy? You’re giving up your power?
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: That’s how I look at it.
JEFF: Yeah. So I’m reflecting on, I don’t know if you know the Doctor Gabor Mate.
CHERYL: I’ve heard that name.
JEFF: Yeah. So he is a medical doctor who has written four books. One of them is about addiction. He has hundreds of youtube videos from talks that he has done. And one of them is around the addiction to power.
CHERYL: Oh! Money power.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: Definitely.
JEFF: He identifies a lot of the kind of patterns in the culture that contribute to people falling prey to addictive thinking and addictive behavior. You know, whether that be drugs or alcohol or whether that be gambling or, you know, whether that be pornography or food or shopping or, you know, just climbing the corporate ladder, you know, and selling their soul kind of –
CHERYL: Exactly.
JEFF: – to get the corner office.
CHERYL: Exactly, exactly. And, you know, I know in DC there’s, it isn’t just money but power, I didn’t even mention that, but you know, there again, it’s almost being a little deficient in their spiritual and emotional being, you know.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: – and unfortunately it takes, you know, traumatic things to happen for people to change.
JEFF: Right, right. And you hit on a really great point that I would like to elaborate on a little bit more, or like you to elaborate on a little bit more. And that is, you know, people kind of getting to a point to where they lean into something larger than themselves, you know, which is, you know, can be a religious thing, with God. It can be a spiritual thing. And I know there is overlap, but I don’t see them completely overlapped. And so I’m wondering, can you talk a little bit about, you know, maybe some of your own journey there?
CHERYL: Oh wow!
JEFF: What you seem helpful.
CHERYL: I’ll tell you the story. And this is my threshold of change.
JEFF: Sure.
CHERYL: When I was pregnant and of course my hormones and my chemistry was going nuts, I had to basically leave my husband, which I’m not blaming all of him, all of this on him, but he basically put me in his addictive spending habits, so he put me into bankruptcy. I had $0.6 to my name and I’ll never forget this as long as I live because it was a pivot for me. And I also had to, cause I knew I ultimately I’d have to file for divorce because he wouldn’t do it.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: You know, I had all those things. So I have this big gray cloud over my head. I remember getting down on my hands and knees and just praying to God.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: I need help. I don’t know what to do. You know? And that’s when I really got it, in my gut, my soul, that if you have a higher self and whatever that means. And I don’t mean an ego self, I mean that the enlightened self or maybe I shouldn’t use that, but, you know, not outside yourself. But when you have that spiritual being inside of yourself to guide you and listening to God, cause to me it’s God.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: It’s there. It’s the universe, whatever you want to call it. Because I think the word God has been abused. I mean, you know, anyway, I won’t go there. But, you know, when you have that internal spiritual, you know, higher than your own ego.
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: Because our egos play games with us. And when you have that inside of yourself, then you can get through anything.
JEFF: Yeah. Wow. So that was a pivotal moment for you.
CHERYL: Hooo…
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah – yeah.
CHERYL: I’m more than survived.
JEFF: Yeah. And so I’m just curious, so like with what you do with people, are you like helping other people get through a certain stage? Like with the wealth thing and –
CHERYL: First of all, people don’t even want to talk about money.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: This is like I’m just launching my podcast and, ,you know, first we have to get through, we have to be open to even talking about the fear that goes around money. Whether it’s, you don’t have enough, you have too much, you don’t know what to do.
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: You know, it’s all levels. But getting past that fear, I mean that is the biggest, the lock –
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: – his fear or denial. Fear and denial. Fear and denial.
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean I really see the overlap there Cheryl for, you know, families with addiction, they, it’s something like people don’t want to talk about addiction in their family and they have good reason why they don’t want to talk about it. And I mean, largely I see that reason being that families have been shamed.
CHERYL: Yes.
JEFF: Families have been stigmatized and just the, you know, several months ago I read the book Prodependence by Rob Weiss. And he talks about the history of codependence and actually, like how the language help to stigmatize families. And with that language, it makes it easier for families to keep the secret, to stay in isolation, to not speak out. And you know, and I’m sure you’ve seen this as well, but when we acknowledge the dark parts of our self and put them in the light, we have more potential to go through our own transformation. And I mean, I really see where addiction in the families can be an, and I frame it as an opportunity, but it’s a situation that family members can really look at what’s really going on for them. And they can make different choices, choices from the standpoint of, I’m going to address this, I’m going to talk about this. You know, I’m going to share this, or I’m going to go to this therapist and do this piece of work that I’ve been thinking about for last 10 years, or.
CHERYL: And you know, just on that total lane, it’s finding the people that you feel comfortable with –
JEFF: Right.
CHERYL: – to talk about it that will support you.
JEFF: Exactly. Exactly.
CHERYL: That is the key.
JEFF: Yeah. Because that person can create conditions where someone else can feel safe.
CHERYL: Absolutely.
JEFF: Safe enough to share what they’ve held private and secret, and in the shadows for so long.
CHERYL: And that’s what I would call unconditional love.
JEFF: Yeah. Unconditional love. Beautiful. Wow. Wow. So we’ve covered a number of areas here and I’m wondering like from where we’re at right now, are there some things that you wanted to share here that we didn’t get to or I didn’t ask about?
CHERYL: Well, this is really gone into a deep, deep place for me. And my prayer for everybody is to be free of all this, you know, the chains that bind you. I guess it’s probably easier for me because I had to for my life coming onto this planet that don’t, so, you know, life is short.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: Oh my god! It’s short. So, you know, it’s so important to live with unconditional love, but you’ve got to start with yourself first. If you can’t love yourself unconditionally, then it’s almost impossible to love others unconditionally.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: You know, and I know some people say: “Well, what’s unconditional? What does that mean?” And I mean, I’ve heard people say: “Well, I don’t believe in it.”
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: You know, it’s a big thing because if you have healthy boundaries and you love yourself, and I don’t mean in an egoic way.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: Just a healthy, healthy love is much easier with others. But it takes a lot of work.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: And some of us have it harder than others.
JEFF: Right. So thank you very much for that, like sharing your hope for everyone listening, really, you know. And what I’m hearing is that’s a message, a takeaway, an action step for anybody to explore. Like how can I take the next step for me, for me to accept myself, for me to even move a little closer towards loving myself. You know, maybe I can’t love myself, but what’s the next incremental little step to where I can accept something? Because if I can’t take that little step, it’s really hard to change very much else.
CHERYL: You know, one thing that [inaudible] conversations that I have with people is, you know, take baby steps.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: When you take little, like you said, incremental steps. It becomes easier, you feel more safe, you feel more secure and you take a baby step at a time towards the progress where you want to go. Then, you know, there’s nothing, I mean what else can you do?
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: It doesn’t happen in big steps. I mean, I suppose it can, but you know, depending on the situation how complicated things are, but baby steps.
JEFF: Yeah, I love that. And I have read some things and seen some things that for some people it’s like something happens, they have this realization. It’s like whoosh, everything’s different. And it’s like, sorry that didn’t, that was not my experience. And these little incremental steps, I think, well, I know they were important for me and I know one of the hardest things is to recognize them. For me to recognize them, but the support of having a coach or a therapist or a trusted friend or, you know, a caregiver of a child who really sees, you know, like I was hearing the relationship you had with your dad who really sees, you know, the beauty and, you know, the potential for you. For that person. And so that is –
CHERYL: I’m being grateful.
JEFF: Yeah. I mean it’s like if we don’t recognize those little steps, it’s like they can happen, but if we don’t pay attention to them, we miss them.
CHERYL: Oh, that’s right. That’s right. And we don’t want to miss those steps in our progress to be healthy and to be free. And to me, I use that word freedom, being free. You know life is short.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: You know.
JEFF: Right. Right – right. And so Cheryl unless there’s something else that you want to touch on. I am going to ask you to share a little bit about how people can get in touch with you or if there’s –
CHERYL: Oh, absolutely.
JEFF: – something like that would really be helpful.
CHERYL: Well, I am very excited because tomorrow I’m launching my podcast, Wealth Transformation.
JEFF: Wealth Transformation. Congratulations!
CHERYL: Yes. Thank you. I’m very excited. It’ll be on iTunes and Stitcher and Spotify and all the other ones. I also have a website which is www.cherylscheurer C-H-E-R-Y-L S-C-H-E-U-R-E-R.com that’s my website. And then I have my email address and that’s probably the easiest way to get ahold of me.
JEFF: Sure.
CHERYL: Is D David R Randy, Cheryl Scheurer C-H-E-R-Y-L S-C-H-E-U-R-E-R Drcherylscheurer@gmail.com And on top of that, I’m also launching my TV show, which I had been producing and hosting for six years, well, almost seven, on binge TV.
JEFF: All right.
CHERYL: Wealth Transformation.
JEFF: Wealth Transformation. All right. Congratulations.
CHERYL: Thank you. Thank you for having me on the show.
JEFF: Yeah.
CHERYL: I didn’t think I could go to these depths, but, you know, this is all good. It’s all good and thank you very much.
JEFF: Yeah, you are welcome. Thank you, Cheryl.