67: Stephanie Small Shares Tips to Move From Feeling “Normal” to natural, effective solutions to feel drastically better
“The gut is the gateway to health.” -Stephanie Small
Want an intervention that’s effective and natural? We often resort to medicines to get a dose of relief without really understanding what we are treating. Healing comes from addressing the root cause rather than just alleviating symptoms. Apparently, biochemistry plays a huge role in symptoms we mistake as psychological or emotional. Stephanie Small joins us in another life-altering conversation on mental health nutrition. She expounds on the influence of gut health to body homeostasis. Occurring imbalances can create somatic chaos that often lead to inflammation or even depression. But, there is something you can do. Tune in to today’s episode and learn the healthy and effective way to recovery.
Highlights:
02:57 Doing What Social Workers Do and Beyond
06:58 Before You Pop A Pill
11:34 How to Detect Imbalances
17:43 It’s Not Just About Eating More Vegetables!
26:08 Gut and Inflammation
31:38 The Body Under Prolonged Stress
37:04 Accountability and Recovery
41:23 When to Eat Potato Chips
It’s all in the gut. So before you pop your next pill, listen in as @TFRSolution and Stephanie Small talks about mental health nutrition. #guthealing #naturalintervention #supportivelifestyle #mentalhealth #stress #supplements #biochemistry Share on X
Quotes:
11:46 “Your birthright as a human being on this planet is on any given day.” -Stephanie Small
19:32 “The gut is the gateway to health.” -Stephanie Small
30:50 “Look at the back of the box and if it has words in the ingredients label that you don’t recognize, your body probably won’t recognize it either.” -Stephanie Small
36:23 “Chewing is a huge part of the digestive process… It’s something free; you don’t have to pay to chew more.” -Stephanie Small
37:53 “Families are really uniquely positioned to be a systemic support to… everyone embarking on these changes.” -Stephanie Small
39:09 “It’s not ‘lazy’; it’s biochemistry. Their body is asking them to take in something that fires more neurotransmitters because they’re so low. And this is where the supplementation comes in.” -Stephanie Small
40:33 “Every human body has this unique ability to find a way to feel the way that it needs to feel.” -Jeff Jones
41:23 “There’s a time and a place to eat a bag of potato chips… If it’s happening frequently, that’s something to look at.” -Stephanie Small
About Stephanie
Stephanie Small is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Holistic Nutritionist. She has received numerous trainings and certifications for mental health and nutrition. Stephanie is also a passionate advocate of natural intervention. She saw the effectiveness of diving into the root cause, which is often biochemical in nature, as opposed to just minimizing symptoms. For those who have tried all sorts of therapy and medications and still far from recovery, Stephanie is the person to go to.
Telephone: (720) 666-1159
Got ideas? Perhaps a future podcast? Schedule time with Jeff here: https://meetme.so/jeffjones
Transcriptions:
Jeff Jones: This is Jeff Jones with the podcast Families Navigating Addiction & Recovery. And today my guest is Stephanie Small, and I have known Stephanie for a number of years. Actually, we worked together a number of years ago in a treatment center and Stephanie was the nutritionist there. It was a, you know, kind of a unique treatment center that actually has a nutritionist there, and I have stayed in touch with Stephanie and seeing some of what she’s been doing. I asked her to be here today to talk about what she’s doing with bringing nutrition and amino acid solutions, maybe I didn’t say that right, to people that have mental health problems, or are diagnosed with a certain way. And so, I’m very excited to have conversation with Stephanie, welcome.
Stephanie Small: Thank you.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. So if you could start, just start to talk about who you are, introduce yourself, and what you bring.
Stephanie Small: So I’m a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Holistic nutritionist, and I have a practice in Boulder, Colorado and also online. And in my practice, I have a few different specializations. One is in terms of therapy, I work a lot with people around relationship with food in the body. I practice somatically and intuitively, but I also have an area of specialization that involves mental health nutrition, and I offer mental health nutrition to all of my incoming clients. I also see other therapists clients specifically for three to six sessions of mental health nutrition. What mental health nutrition is basically the art and science of using nutrition, gut support, and supplements to stabilize biochemistry. So it can have a really profound impact on mood, sleep, energy, focus, cravings. And to me it makes all the sense in the world to be doing that actually in a lot of cases before even starting therapy because someone can come in presenting with anxiety, or insomnia, or substance cravings, and it can be emotional in nature. It can be biochemical in nature, it can be both.
Jeff Jones: Right.
Stephanie Small: And if it’s biochemical, but you’re doing therapy for it, you’re not really going to get very far. But if it’s an issue of blood sugars dysregulated, or you know, there’s systemic inflammation, or you’re low in a certain row transmitter, you can fix that very quickly using these natural interventions. And so, if you start with the mental health nutrition and you help stabilize the person’s system, then you see whatever is left is emotional in nature and that’s what then you can proceed to work on in therapy.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. Wow. So what drew you to start to learn about this? I mean, you’re a social worker, you went to school, you got a degree, you’re a social worker, you should be able to go out and do dah, dah, dah, what social workers do. But somehow you got curious about something more than that. Tell me about that.
Stephanie Small: Well, I still do what social workers do. That’s still a lot of my practice, but I had my own healing journey with food and that led me to get, first, a Certificate in Holistic Nutrition Education, which is nice, you know? And foundational, I learned a lot about the gut, I learned a lot about nutrition and nutritional protocols for different illnesses and ailments. But it was, I think 2014, I saw this particular job advertised at the treatment center where you and I–
Jeff Jones: Yeah.
Stephanie Small: –and I also met the woman who founded the Mental Health Nutrition Program at that treatment center, and at that time, she kind of opened my eyes to this whole world of, it’s really using Naturopathic Medicine for mental health. And to me, it makes so much sense. It is so practical. You can see the effects very quickly. I mean, right when you start taking supplements, you know, in many cases you can tell the difference the same day. To me, it just, it makes sense. I’m a huge like town crier for it.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. I mean, in my own practice, I have used the self-report form for years, and you know, it’s in different categories that will allow people to that 1 to 10 scale kind of thing. And they can see if they’re low in serotonin, or low in GABA, or you know, whatever. But it’s a good over, it seemed like a very good place to start.
Stephanie Small: Yes. And people also think, Oh, okay, well if I’m low in serotonin, I need to take an SSRI. And people don’t even know that this is a field or that it works.
Jeff Jones: Yeah.
Stephanie Small: And more and more, this is trickling into mainstream. It’s more and more trickling into conventional medicine. For example, inflammation is now a mainstream conversation and conventional medicine, and understanding of how inflammation, Oh, it tends to go along with gut issues and mood issues, but then you know, the suggestion is take anti-inflammatories and it’s like, no, inflammation comes from stress, diet, alcohol, certain medications. So the main conventional medicine is still not going that extra step of looking at what the root causes are rather than, Oh, what do we just take to suppress this inflammatory activity.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. And started out with there, it’s like when someone is low in a certain brain chemical, the normal, I mean, thinking process to approach that is just go to the doctor, get a, you know, an SSRI, get a pill.
Stephanie Small: Yeah.
Jeff Jones: A pharmaceutical pill. And there’s such a huge difference between pharmaceuticals and what they do in the body, and amino acids and what they do in the body.
Stephanie Small: And getting the gut to work better. Because I have to say, I very rarely see someone for mental health nutrition who doesn’t also have severe gut problems, and most of the body’s neurotransmitters are made, manufactured in the gut.
Jeff Jones: Right.
Stephanie Small: So why would we not start with gut healing so that we can optimize the gut function and it’s making maximum neuro-transmitters, rather than totally ignoring that and going, Oh, okay, you must be low in serotonin. Let’s take to, you know, to make your brain fire more serotonin. That, and, you know, thinking about, since we’re talking about serotonin, the issue of depression. People have this idea which is kind of propagated by conventional mental health system that depression has to do with low serotonin, and biochemically, depression can have MANY CAUSES, many causes, you know, dysregulated blood sugar, poor nutrition, low thyroid function, subclinical virus, subclinical infection, blah, blah, blah. So it’s about really finding the root cause, like what is actually causing this? And then the majority of the time, there are natural ways to heal that, which is why I get so excited about it, and I want everyone to know about it.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, I know that you have a ton of experience with working with the individual who’s been in addiction, maybe it’s early recovery or whatever. I know that you have a lot of experience there. So one of the things that I want to ask you about is what might the family members be, what might be happening inside of their body? I mean, family members are apprehensive. Like they don’t know when the next shoe will drop. Their ability to trust is low, and they may have lived with this, you know, addiction in the family for many years. And there’s research out there about this, but it’s like family members who live in this environment for years, and years, and years, they end up getting gastrointestinal.
Stephanie Small: Yes.
Jeff Jones: They have their own medical diagnosable diseases.
Stephanie Small: Yes.
Jeff Jones: You know, and so, part of what I wanted to ask you about, is there something that you have seen that can catch attention to let people know that the human body, there’s an optimal way that it’s going to operate and living with someone with addiction at many different stages, you know, that’s going to have an impact on their body.
Stephanie Small: Yeah. So what I tell people when they come into my office, cause I have them fill out these assessments on rating different digestive symptoms, and mood, and sleep, and energy symptoms, and craving symptoms. And I say: “Your birthright as a human being on this planet is on any given day, your ratings for these symptoms should be zero, one, or two, they should be very low. On a typical day, your sleep should be decent, your mood should be decent, you should not be having strong cravings, your digestion should be decent.” And here’s what that looks like cause we never talk about digestion, so I educate on that. So if you are having symptoms, whether it’s constipation, or acne, or anxiety, or you know, craving energy drinks, or craving cocaine, it is an expression of something that in your system that is out of balance, because balance means you are not going to have severe symptoms like this, generally speaking, generally speaking. So what you’re saying about the blow back of addiction, not just on the individual but on the family from a biochemical standpoint is totally true. I mean, someone who’s dealing with addiction is going to be very depleted in nutrients, in neuro-transmitters. But the family, because of the stress is also going to be depleted in nutrients and neurotransmitters. And that means the whole family system can take a slide into a lifestyle that is less healthy. Number one, because they’re exhausted and drained, and they’re like, I don’t have energy to prepare good food and go exercise. But number two, because when you are low, say in, okay, we’ve been talking about serotonin, you’re low in serotonin for example, you are going to start reaching for substances that fire more serotonin in your system so that you can feel back to balance, and that can be alcohol, that can be marijuana, that can also be sugar and starch. So just as the person who’s addicted or in early recovery is going to be wanting to pound, you know, junk food. So are the family members because they get a temporary high from it.
“Your birthright as a human being on this planet is on any given day.” -Stephanie Small Share on XJeff Jones: Right, right. Wow. So what have you seen that’s helpful for people to really get it? You know, because I know what you’re talking about. I’ve seen it myself, but so oftentimes all of that focus is on that one person, you know, overly focusing on everything they do and that has an impact on people. And, you know, it’s like I have seen numerous family members where they don’t, at some point they get feeling less and less comfortable in their own house. So the walking on eggshells, that’s very real and that there’s a lot of nervousness. So the body isn’t really in an environment to be able to fully calm down. And what I hear you saying is if the whole family can kind of start to take on a regime of, you know, eating well, exercising, doing things together, that just their body is going to be in a position to support them in ways that if they keep doing their habitual kind of run, run, run, and not have time to take care of themselves, and you know, perhaps be concerned or scared in their own house, or going from one crisis to the next thing, they just have less resilience to use their inner strengths to deal with the challenges in the outer world.
Stephanie Small: Yeah. I think there are a lot of facets to this. I mean, it’s definitely a vicious cycle. You know, the more depleted someone is, like I said, the less energy they have to implement lifestyle changes that are supportive, but the less you’re living a supportive lifestyle, the less resilient you feel.
Jeff Jones: Right.
Stephanie Small: The other piece is that people often think, and I even think this one, and I hear a nutritionist, Oh, like eat a salad with grilled chicken. I’m like, that’s actually not what this is about at all. Mental health nutrition is actually, I would say almost infinitely complex subject. That’s not how I address it with my clients because, why? That doesn’t help, but you can go on learning about this for years or decades because it’s physiology and anatomy, so this, it’s not just like, Oh, well I’ve been trying to eat more vegetables and I don’t feel better. People in early recovery are so depleted, and sometimes their family members from years of chronic stress are so depleted that it’s not just about eating more vegetables, which by the way, always good more vegetables. It’s actually about using concentrated nutrition in the form of supplements to repair in a very therapeutic, strategic and targeted way. You just need that greater level of intensity.
Jeff Jones: So can you give me some examples, talk about something that you have, you know, maybe a client and keeping them anonymous, give me an example of a process that you’ve experienced someone at one stage, and then how they progressed.
Stephanie Small: Yeah. Oh, my God. I have so many examples, I worked with hundreds of people on this, but the one that highlights the point that I just made about sometimes it’s just about eating more vegetables. It’s about really needing this clinical therapeutic EYE ON YOU to assess what you need in concentrated doses. I’m thinking of one client that I had who, his drug of choice was meth and he had received diagnosis in the past of bipolar, which like if someone’s using meth, how can you diagnose them as bipolar? I don’t know. But he also had a lot of issues with blood sugar dysregulation, was very into sugar, which, you know, understandable because sugar and meth both fire catecholamines. So this guy is very low in catecholamines cause he used so much meth, and so then he uses sugar and caffeine also to supplement, the firing of that, and he was a vegetarian. So then we have an issue of him probably not taking enough protein. So his blood sugar is low often, and when your blood sugar low, you crave sugar. So we have a lot of these different factors happening. And this was also a person who was interested in nutrition and how the decent baseline of knowledge for a lay person about nutrition. So he would eat fairly well aside from not enough protein. He wasn’t like processed food all day every day, but he would get intense sugar cravings because of how depleted he was. And like I said, he wasn’t taking in enough protein, so his mood was very swingy as you can imagine. I always start with digestive support, and I actually don’t remember what was going on with his gut, but I’m sure it was nothing good. So we always work on healing the gut because the gut is the gateway to health. If the gut is not working to absorb the food you put in it, it’s a nonstarter, right?
“The gut is the gateway to health.” -Stephanie Small Share on XJeff Jones: Yeah.
Stephanie Small: So the gut has to work well so we can break down the food, obtain the nutrients, send them where they need to go. It has to work well so that it can manufacture neurotransmitters and nutrients cause the gut makes the nutrients. It has to work well so that it’s not inflamed because the inflammatory response can cause issues with mood. So we started with that, then we worked on nutrition and just bringing in more protein, and you can do this as a vegetarian, and that alone helped a great deal with this sugar cravings. And then we worked, he needed a lot of support of catecholamines because he was very, like I said, depleted from the meth and sugar, and so very low energy, low energy, poor focus, poor motivation. So we used a supplement called L-thyroxine to help his system make more catecholamines. L-thyroxine has some contraindications. So I don’t necessarily want anyone who’s listening to this to go, Oh I have, you know, low energy and poor focus, let me go get, L-thyroxine. The other thing is that there can be many reasons for low energy and poor focus, not just, you know, catecholamine depletion, but he did need that. And with all of that, I would say within a few, less than a few weeks, he was so steady. Mood was so stable. He had the energy that he needed to get through the day without sugar, or energy drinks, or meth. So that is one snapshot. And then, you know, he didn’t look bipolar at all. The bipolar diagnosis was from the meth and from everything else he was doing to his system.
Jeff Jones: Right. So, then symptoms, behavioral symptoms can be diagnosed and without really understanding the underlying drivers.
Stephanie Small: Right.
Jeff Jones: Like the gut.
Stephanie Small: Right, right. It’s so, the gut, understanding of gut health is so isolated from mental health, it’s really sad. And like I said, it’s starting to trickle into the mainstream a little more. I mean, to me it’s the foundation.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I know that to you it’s the foundation. I saw your webpage, something on your webpage, and comment about, here’s some things I wish every human knew about their body or something–
Stephanie Small: Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. I mean, it seems like just our whole thinking about our mental health has been conditioned to believe a certain, you know, believe that our solutions exist by going to the medical doctor, or watching TV, and getting that SSRI that has the smiley face with the bounce and–
Stephanie Small: Yes. And by the way, speaking of that, I just recently read that the US and New Zealand are the only countries that allow pharmaceuticals to do direct to consumer advertising.
Jeff Jones: Oh, my gosh.
Stephanie Small: It’s not allowed in other countries. So what you say, right on, you know, I’m the person who doesn’t have the knowledge that I have, I’m feeling depressed, I’m watching TV, I see that pill with a smiley face. Why would I not want that? Why would I not go for that?
Jeff Jones: So let me ask you, are there doctors that, like medical doctors that are becoming open to, you know, nutritional mental health as you’re talking about, like, do you talk to docs who have openness, what is that like?
Stephanie Small: Well, naturopathic doctors, this is how they practice.
Jeff Jones: Yeah.
Stephanie Small: This is, I mean I’m not, I’ve not a naturopathic doctor at all, I am not even a science person. All of my science knowledge is very hard one, this is a naturopathic approach that I’m talking about. And then, you have, in terms of conventional medicine, medical doctors who call themselves integrative practitioners who will use pharmaceuticals, but they also study some of these facets that we’re talking about. So that’s a growing field, and I’m so happy about that, it’s fantastic. There’s of course still doctors who think it’s bologna, and most doctors hardly get any nutrition training in medical school. But yeah, I think especially where we live, you know, Boulder County, I mean, even if they don’t have the knowledge, they’re open to it and they understand that, Oh, this could be an interesting Adjunctive Therapy, right?
Jeff Jones: Yeah.
Stephanie Small: That’s some of their approach. For me, it’s primary. And I don’t mean to say there’s no place for medication because I think that we live in such a tough world and we’re all struggling so much. And if you try other things and it doesn’t work, and taking that pill helps, just take the pill, you know, do what you need to do. But the majority of people that I see as mental health nutrition clients do not want to take medication. Often they’re on medication and they want to get off, and the majority of time, we can do that successfully using these natural approaches.
Jeff Jones: Right. So, I assume that you have helped people transition from pharmaceuticals to amino acids, or supplementation, and, yeah. And then the other question that I had, I was just curious about the inflammation. One of the things I hear more and more about is like inflammation is, you know, a driver for so many of the illnesses and conditions that the human body can have. So can you talk a little bit about inflammation, and maybe what that is, and also some ways that people may be able to lower that for themselves?
Stephanie Small: Yeah. Yeah. So I’m going to talk about it in almost like a kindergartener way because that’s how I learn it. Cause as I said, I’m not a science person. So this is going to be a therapist with a more narrative story, language oriented mind telling the story of inflammation. And I’m constantly trying to teach it to myself. And so, I may, I may not, you know, this isn’t like hearing a doctor talk about inflammation. But basically what happens is in our gut we have a protective lining, which is one cell thick. This the bacterial lining you’ve probably heard of like your gut colony, your gut bacteria, right? And in a healthy individual we have a healthy balance. We have the presence of supportive bacteria and then bacteria that when it’s in the right amounts it’s fine. But if it grows, you know, out of balance it can really cause major problems, health problems. And then we have bacteria that comes in via food and drink, and in a healthy functioning gut is excreted appropriately. So this bacterial colony does amazing things. It does so many things. I don’t even know all of the things it does. One of the things that it does is manufacture neuro-transmitters. It also manufactures nutrients because our body constantly needs nutrients. It neutralizes toxins, it helps the immune system greatly in many ways. A lot of our immune system is actually located right at our gut. It’s called the Gut-associated lymphoid tissue. And the healthy gut bacteria basically supports the production of immune cells and substances that the immune system uses. So as you, maybe you’re starting to see the health of our gut bacteria is of great importance. And you know, thinking about how our ancestors lived, we were eating venison and roots and clear water from the streams, and our gut colonies were really in good shape. But even in those situations, all of our ancestors ate fermented foods because fermented foods had probiotic in them that helped populate the gut colony appropriately. So what’s happening with our gut colonies today in modern America? Well, they tend to be pretty out of balance. Why? Diet? So a diet high in processed foods, refined foods, sugar, alcohol, medications such as the birth control pill, such as anti-inflammatories, such as antibiotics, which we not only take for our own illnesses but are in a lot of meat that we consume. Stress? Absolutely stress. All of these impact the balance of the gut bacteria. When the gut bacteria is out of balance, it creates vulnerability in the gut wall, and the gut wall starts to become more permeable. When it’s more permeable, what happens is different, back like the microscopic of course, bacteria and food particles and things like that that should remain in the gut and get digested, or excrete it, or whatever are passing through the gut wall.
Jeff Jones: Hmm.
Stephanie Small: And that causes inflammation. It causes an immune response. Taking in foods and substances that our gut does not recognize, that alone causes inflammation cause it’s like what is this? Right? Like our bodies weren’t designed to be eating, whatever, you know, artificial food dye. It’s like we don’t recognize this, what is this? So that’s my kindergarten version of how inflammation occurs in the gut. And there’s a lot more facets to it. And as I said, you get a lot were professionally scientific about it, but that’s what happens. So that’s why, if we want to, and then in terms of what we’re talking about, inflammation is now being tied to a host of medical problems. Certainly it’s being tied to, you know, that bucket of illnesses that doctors, you know, medical doctors are like, we don’t know why fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, and it’s certainly now tied to depression and anxiety.
Jeff Jones: Right, right, right.
Stephanie Small: So, something really simple that people can do is to eat foods that our ancestors would have eaten. And this isn’t like the paleo diet. This is like, look at the back of the box, and if it has words in the ingredients label that you don’t recognize, your body probably won’t recognize it either. Things like eating fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, whole grains, eat, you know, meat from a source that you trust that isn’t filled with antibiotics and hormones.
“Look at the back of the box and if it has words in the ingredients label that you don't recognize, your body probably won't recognize it either.” -Stephanie Small Share on XJeff Jones: Can you talk a little bit, just from the standpoint of stress, what happens to a body that is in an environment of, you know, that’s very stressful for a long period of time, and they don’t get a break.
Stephanie Small: In terms of, like how it gets depleted?
Jeff Jones: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my understanding of what’s ideally supposed to happen is that when we have a stressor that our body is going, like, has the resilience and internal strength to be able to deal with that stressor and then bring the nervous system back to calm. And when the nervous system is at calm, there’s more blood flow to the part of the brain where a person can see a full context of what’s going on, make the best decision, consider different options. But what I have seen is when someone is activated, activated, activated, at some point, they don’t see any choices, they feel hopeless, you know, it’s almost like they can’t make a decision until things get so bad that they really don’t have any other choice or something.
Stephanie Small: Yeah.
Jeff Jones: So, I’m asking specifically of your understanding of the human organism. The body under stress for a long period of time with very little self care, and very little recognition that impact.
Stephanie Small: Well, from the lens that I’m talking about. I mean, again, so many things, but a few pieces that I would highlight. Number one, is that you have two states, fight or flight or rest and digest. So if you’re in fight or flight, you cannot rest, repair and digest. And I start off telling all of my mental health nutrition clients about this because I say: “You can eat the best meal in the world, the most nutrient dense meal in the world, but if you are eating it in a stressed out state, the blood is preferentially being shunted to your limbs so that you can go fight or flee, and it is less so in your digestive system and you are not going to be digesting it optimally. You’re not going to break down the food.” And how often in our culture are we eating in a stressed out state, we’re eating while we’re driving, or we’re eating in front of a stressful TV show or whatever. So breathe and chew.
Jeff Jones: That right there seems like such a golden nugget, you know? Because that’s something that every one of us, every human being can do to just have that awareness that you just talked about, I guess first, know that they have to eat, and that when they eat, be in a calm place.
Stephanie Small: Yeah.
Jeff Jones: And if they’re not, that’s not the time to eat. They need to take the time to calm.
Stephanie Small: Yeah.
Jeff Jones: To bring themselves to calm, or to be in a calm environment, or something. And sometimes that can literally feel impossible for someone, but it’s so important, and it’s like that little nugget that you shared there, Stephanie, it isn’t like, you know, someone needs to pay money for it.
Stephanie Small: Right.
Jeff Jones: There’s plenty of other things that they can pay money for that can help them, but if they don’t do little things like this, then even positive things that they’re doing isn’t going to have the same positive impact.
Stephanie Small: Exactly. I remember, and I tell this story to my mental health nutrition clients frequently, I was working in a psych unit, this was, Oh, my gosh, 12 years ago. It was very stressful. And this is when I was going to hold this psych nutrition school. So I started making these really beautiful lunches cause I learned how to make healthy food cause I all I knew to do before that was to boil pasta. But I bring them in to the unit and I would eat them in this very stressed out state. And then when we got to the class on stress and digestion, I learned, Oh, like, all of that beautiful food and I wasn’t even digesting it. So, yeah, breathe and chew, the other thing is that digestion actually starts with the brain and eyes. When we think about food or look at food, also smell food, that starts to get all the juices flowing. But then when you put the food in your mouth, chewing is a huge part of the digestive process. And most of us take three chews and then we put another bite in our mouth, and we’re actually supposed to chew our food until it’s somewhat of a soupy consistency, which nobody does. But again, something free, you don’t have to pay to chew more.
“Chewing is a huge part of the digestive process… It’s something free; you don't have to pay to chew more.” -Stephanie Small Share on XJeff Jones: Yeah. Right. And how these things can contribute to our health, not only our physical health but our mental health. So wow. Yeah. From this conversation, is there anything that you wanted to say that we haven’t touched on yet?
Stephanie Small: I think that it might be important to say a few pieces. When I’m working with someone in early recovery, they very rarely want to embark on mental health nutrition because they feel like they’ve already given up a lot and giving up their drug of choice. They don’t want to be more restricted. They think I’m going to tell them to only eat salad and grilled chicken, which is not true.
Jeff Jones: I love salad and grilled chicken.
Stephanie Small: I do too, but it has a bad reputation of like boring nutritionists. I’m going to tell you to count calories and have a meal plan, which is not what I do, and so it works. Just this stuff works so well, and it requires accountability actually, if someone is in early recovery and wants to make these changes. And so, I think families are really uniquely positioned to be a systemic support to people who are in recovery who are trying to make these healthy lifestyle changes BY EVERYONE embarking on these changes.
“Families are really uniquely positioned to be a systemic support to… everyone embarking on these changes.” -Stephanie Small Share on XJeff Jones: I really like that. Like everybody can make changes and it’s not just about one person.
Stephanie Small: And the family probably needs too because they’re so depleted from stress, you know, there’s so much you can do. I mean, I work with people in mental health nutrition who have not had issues with drugs and alcohol, but they’ve just had chronic stress. And we can do SO MUCH with just nutrition, gut support, and supplements. And the other thing too is that, I think I want to speak to the fact that there can be shame around cravings when people are not using substances, but they’re still low in certain neurotransmitters. They’re going to crave substances that fire those neurotransmitters like sugar or caffeine. And then it’s like, Oh, that person just needs to just stop eating the marshmallow peeps and gummy worms, you know, why are they being lazy and not taking this in hand? And it’s like, it’s not lazy, it’s biochemistry. Their body is asking them to take in something that fires more neuro-transmitters cause they’re so low. And this is where the supplementation comes in, and can help rebalance the system so that they stop having those cravings. I do this all the time with people, all the time. I just had a client who is dealing with sugar addiction and she said on the first visit: “I want to be able to go into whole foods and look at the desserts like they’re not hot men.” And I was like: “I can get you there.” And she was, she’s like: “Really?” I’m like: “Yeah, that’s what I do.” Sure enough, for her, actually, there was a huge endorphin depletion component cause sugar [inaudible] endorphins too. So one of the important things we did was supplement her endorphin production. She can totally go into whole foods now, look admiringly at the desserts and not feel like she has to buy them all and stuff them on her face today.
“It's not ‘lazy’; it's biochemistry. Their body is asking them to take in something that fires more neurotransmitters because they're so low. And this is where the supplementation comes in.” -Stephanie Small Share on XJeff Jones: Right. Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that. When I go to the store, it’s like, I can find myself walking out of the store with a bag of potato chips, and open the potato chips before I even start my car. And by the time I get home, the bags half gone or something, you know? So one of the ways I’ve thought about this is every human body has this unique ability to find a way to feel the way that it needs to feel.
“Every human body has this unique ability to find a way to feel the way that it needs to feel.” -Jeff Jones Share on XStephanie Small: Absolutely.
Jeff Jones: And so, we can do these things that we know aren’t really great for us and it isn’t like I’m going to get a Dy by, you know, even if I have a whole bag of potato chips. But it’s like my mental health is going to be very different if I binge out on a bag of potato chips.
Stephanie Small: Yeah. And I want to say that this also isn’t a rigid thing, like potato chips are bad, and that’s not what you’re saying. But I want to underline that as someone who works a lot with disordered eating and eating disorders, it’s like, there’s a time and a place for potato chips.
Jeff Jones: Yeah.
Stephanie Small: There’s a time and a place to eat a bag of potato chips if you’re like, you know what? This is what I need right now. This is going to make me feel better. And if it’s happening frequently?
Jeff Jones: Yeah.
Stephanie Small: That’s something to look at.
“There's a time and a place to eat a bag of potato chips… If it's happening frequently, that's something to look at.” -Stephanie Small Share on XJeff Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. Well, part of how I understand it, and I’m just guessing here, but that is the kind of addiction system inside the body that reminds me of how I can say one thing and do another, just like someone in addiction, you know? And so, it’s one, yeah, potato chips are not bad, but if that’s something that I do every time I go to the store, it’s like, hmm, that’s probably something I should look at. But if it’s something that happens just now and then, you know, it’s a potato chip.
Stephanie Small: Right, exactly.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So Stephanie, I would like you to talk a little bit about some of what you offer. And I heard you said that you have an office in Boulder. Do you have some ways that people can work with you online, like an online program, or something like that?
Stephanie Small: I do see people online, yes. And I’m going to be developing a training program specifically for therapists on mental health nutrition. Yeah. So I’m starting to embark on that. And this is for therapists who do not want to get super technical and geeky about the biochemistry, but who want really broad based interventions that give a lot of bang for your buck. I’m going to be actually providing the system that I use, which is, you know, starting with digestion, then moving to nutrition, then moving to supplementation. So that will be for therapists. But, yes, I see clients in my office and online, and I want to see everyone and anyone that thinks that this could be helpful because it’s so important and it works really well.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you very much for this conversation, and I, you know, personally look forward to seeing where you take this. My own sense is that this is so, so needed, and if you could say what your website is, how you would like people to learn more about you, or contact you.
Stephanie Small: Yeah, come to my website. It’s www.stephaniesmallhealth.com, S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I-E-S-M-A-L-L-H-E-A-L-T-H.C-O-M.
Jeff Jones: All right. Great. Great. Well, thank you very much Stephanie. I appreciate it.
Stephanie Small: Thank you.