43: Secrets are Normalized for Teens Growing Up in a Family with Addiction- Kim Thompson’s Mission is to Change this Cultural Pattern
“I think it’s important that teens have some kind of role model… somebody in their life that believes in them.”-Kim Thompson
Sometimes, the harder we hide something, the more painful it becomes- both to the person hiding it and to the ones it was hidden from. This is what happened to our guest, Kim Thomson. Her teenage years was marked with unaddressed questions and emotions that became an empty space, which she constantly tried to fill in. But the path she walked expanded that empty space instead. Now an adult, she came to realize the words above, moving her to make it her mission to help teens of families with addiction. She is the owner of the Colorado Teen and Family Center and she also serves as a Family Program Educator at CeDAR UCHealth. As her story unfolds, discover what lies behind every secret and why changing this culture can help save both your teens and your family.
We know that communication in the family is an essential ingredient in maintaining harmonious and happy relationships. Sometimes, however, older members choose to keep their mouth shut on certain things, assuming that the younger members don’t have to know about it. It maybe for protecting the kids from pain or protecting themselves from the pain of having to face the truth. But in reality, nobody’s protecting anybody. Teens can sense if there’s something going on. Keeping secrets from them is teaching them to keep secrets from you. So for today’s episode, learn how secrets in the family, especially the ‘addiction secret’, can cause enduring suffering to your teens. See how you can shield them from the adverse consequences that their suffering can lead them to. Taste the joy of helping your teens find their own role and place in the family. Build bridges and create the right meaning together before you get caught in the cycle of belief system. Feel your emotions as a family. Meanwhile, our guest will also introduce a program that can help teenagers deal with their thoughts and emotions. Hear more of these topics from today’s podcast.
Highlights:
04:01 Igniting the Passion
09:28 The Belief System Cycle
12:49 Falling to Adverse Defensive Coping Mechanisms
15:22 Letting Out the ‘Secrets’ Sparks Healing
24:11 Building Bridges
29:06 The Trickledown of Addiction
31:25 Program for Teens of Families with Addiction-What’s in it?
39:24 Creating a Level of Safety
Make your secrets #secretsnomore! Join our host @TFRSolution and guest Kim Thompson in a story of #buildingbridges #safecircles #familyrolesfamilygoals. Share on X
Connect With Kim
Website: http://www.coloradoteenfamilycenter.org/
Email: Coloradoteenfamilycenter@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberly-thompson-m-s-mftc-914230157/
Facebook: https://web.facebook.com/Colorado-Teen-and-Family-Center-394502731129559/
Telephone: (720) 808-0139
Quotes:
08:36 “I was suffering. I didn’t know what to do with my feelings. I don’t know how to talk about it.” –Kim Thompson
10:06 “As a teen, if you don’t have that adult, or you don’t have any other frame of reference, the meaning I would make it, it was all about my peers… But, they weren’t role models. They were also other teens who were struggling.” –Kim Thompson
11:12 “Every family obviously has some secrets, but they didn’t have the addiction secret.” –Kim Thompson
11:46 “When you’re so uncomfortable in your own skin, the tendency is to look outside of ourselves to be okay.” –Kim Thompson
13:05 “It was hard to feel my feelings.” –Kim Thompson
24:46 “I think it’s important that teens have some kind of role model… somebody in their life that believes in them.” –Kim Thompson
Got ideas? Perhaps a future podcast? Schedule time with Jeff here: https://meetme.so/jeffjones
Transcriptions
This episode of Families Navigating Addiction and Recovery is sponsored by The Family Recovery Solution where we recognize that families are the biggest stakeholder in this addiction crisis. And we see that families can be a stronger part of the solution in their own family, in their communities, and in our world. We know that addiction in the family is not the fault of the family. We know that family engagement increases the potential of change happening sooner and positive outcomes lasting longer, as well as navigating healing connections in the family now and well into the future. So we’ve created an online platform for families to safely navigate this journey at their pace. Check out www.thefamilyrecoverysolution.com
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JEFF: Hi there everyone, this is Jeff Jones and today I am here with a woman that I have known for – we just figured out seven and a half years.
KIM: Yes. Seven and a half years, that’s a long time.
JEFF: Yeah. So I am here today with Kim Thompson. And I met Kim seven and a half years ago or seven years ago or something like that at the Betty Ford Children’s Programs. So she worked down there three and a half years or something. And then she was at Cedar in running their family program, a part of their family program. And now she is starting the next chapter for her, which is – she’s going to talk about in this interview. And so, you know, in a thimble full, what I understand that she’s doing that I see as so crucial and so important and so needed is she is creating or has created, I’ll let her correct me, but that is a program for teens who come from a home of addiction. And so the program isn’t for teen toward in addiction, it’s for who come from a home with addiction. Big difference. And, you know, oftentimes teens that come from a home with addiction, like families, like the whole family, but teens specifically, they can so oftentimes be in the background, in the shadows, they may not even know their own impact. And a lot of times they don’t know to reach out like addiction has been normalized, this is the way they’ve grown up. They don’t know any better. And so I’m so delighted to have Kim Thompson here today to talk about kind of this next chapter of her life. So welcome.
KIM: Yeah, thank you so much Jeff. That was beautiful said actually and thanks for having me. I really appreciate you –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – inviting me and letting me talk about the thing that I’m extremely passionate about.
JEFF: Well, and so let’s start with where that passion began.
KIM: Okay. So I grew up in an alcoholic home. My father was an alcoholic and he was also addicted to prescription drugs. I also have at least four other family members that I was close to who struggled with addiction, an aunt, an uncle, a grandparent, and a cousin.
JEFF: Wow.
KIM: So it really, really ran rampant in my family. Fortunately, with the exception of my cousin who actually passed away due to a drug overdose, all of the other, my family members found recovery –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – including my own father. And he got sober when I was 12. So this is way back in 1982 –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – that he got sober and I was right in middle school. And that’s all – obviously we could think back to our middle school years and how challenging they are anyway, developmentally. But, you know, going from my dad’s addiction, kind of the trauma around addiction, as a kid, knowing that something’s off but not sure, like ,you know, is it me? Is it because I brought home a C? Is it because I didn’t clean my room?
JEFF: Right.
KIM: Is my dad okay. Is he –
JEFF: So doubting yourself?
KIM: Yeah, just a lot of confusion wondering is my dad going to be okay? Is he going to die? And my dad was the person who raised me. So I was always in fear that something was going to happen to my dad and I wouldn’t have anyone to take care of me. So having that experience and then going to school and having all of the pressures of just life of a middle school and high schooler. My dad found recovery right when I was 12 and back in the 80s, this is a time when families weren’t really included in treatment, especially not kids or teens. There wasn’t a Betty Ford Children’s Program back then. There wasn’t a teen program and there was not much to do with families being involved.
So my dad went to a treatment center and they had a family evening and that was it. And I remember, and I tell the story in family week at Cedar, I remember going to this family evening saying the serenity prayer with these strangers and they gave me candy.
JEFF: [laughs]
KIM: Which is really important when you’re 12 cause any chance you get your hands on sweets, it’s like Christmas all over again, no matter what time of year it is. But the interesting thing is we never talked about it. Like I went to this family thing, my dad and I didn’t talk about his addiction.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: We didn’t talk about his recovery. We didn’t talk about, I had no education, no frame of reference as to how did my dad become addicted? How did he get better? What’s the impact been on me?
JEFF: Right.
KIM: So then I go into my teen years and none of my feelings around it were discussed. You know, I had no clue on how to even bring it up with my dad like –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – what is this whole rehab thing about and why is there the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous laying around. And, you know, sure enough, as the years went by and I’m 16, I’m using drugs and alcohol myself. And it wasn’t until much later in my early 20’s when somebody, a real trusted adult in college said to me: “You grew up in an alcoholic home. Like have you ever talked about the impact that had on you?”
JEFF: Wow. So it wasn’t until you were 20 that someone actually kind of reflected and was curious like: “Hey, what about this impact?”
KIM: Right. And as she was talking to me about this, all of a sudden I started making all these connections to, you know, how hard it was as a teen and watching my own daughters go through that. I have two daughters and one 16 and one is 19.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: And just, you know, I see kind of the struggles they go through every day, challenges that teens face. And back then in my early 20’s, I’m like: “Oh my gosh! Like I was suffering. I didn’t know what to do with my feelings.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: I didn’t know –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – how to talk about it.” And you said something earlier, you know, just the – I can’t remember exactly what you said, but you know, this whole idea of being in a family and nobody’s talking about it. And I would go to my friends’ houses and see their families, even though my dad was sober, but they would actually talk about things. They had a different family dynamic than what I had. And, you know, as teens we kind of really internalize. I remember internalizing –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – a lot –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – and thinking: “Hey, my family is so different.”
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah – yeah. So Kim, just as I’m listening to your story, one of the things that I think about is what I have called the Belief Systems Cycle for years, where it’s like belief systems from the past kind of drive our thinking, drive our actions –
KIM: Absolutely.
JEFF: – and then drive our feeling, our feelings about our life situation, which reinforces our belief. And like as a child it’s like, if you have no one to kind of reflect and kind of give you feedback, you’re stuck in trying to make meaning yourself –
KIM: Right.
JEFF: – as a child.
KIM: Right. And as a teen, what you’re making meaning from is if you don’t have that adult or you don’t have any other frame of reference, the meaning I would make, it was all about my peers.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: That’s where I, you know, we would talk about things or –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – where I would share my frustrations or my feelings. But, you know, they weren’t role models. They were also other teens who are struggling too.
JEFF: Right. And then you go home from your friends family to your family and there’s this thing called secrets, which, and it’s – so there was a lot of stuff that wasn’t talked about. And even as a kid, it sounds like you were aware of the difference between, like the secrets at home and like a friend’s family to where they talked about stuff.
KIM: Right. And watching other people and my friends and their families, like being kind of comfortable in their own skin. Even some of my –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – friends were comfortable in their own skin because they did talk about things and they, you know, every family obviously has some secrets but they didn’t have the addiction secret.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: And so I just recall a lot of, you know, not being comfortable in my own skin and this idea, which is why I really want to create – has started the process of creating this teen program is, you know, I was already struggling with my identity, which is what teens do is try to figure out their identity.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: I was already struggling to find out my identity. And then when you’re so uncomfortable in your own skin, the tendency is to look out outside of ourselves to be okay. And that’s kind of then where I began experimenting with drugs and alcohol because it wasn’t okay to talk about my feelings. It wasn’t okay to address what was going on in the family. And so it’s like, well –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – I need to find something that I thought at the time, oh, this is gonna make me feel better in my own skin that’s going to help me connect with people. It’s going to help.
JEFF: Yeah. Just listening to your story, I mean, it reminds me so much of my own story, really. You know, growing up with addiction and one of the things that I think about is the defensive coping mechanisms.
KIM: Oh, absolutely.
JEFF: Like even after the use is gone and someone is in recovery, if the patterns and the family don’t change these defensive coping mechanisms, these defensive interpersonal interrelationship kind of ways of communicating are still there. And I know what I did, I didn’t learn anything new. And so I took it as an adult and I did my own fun with drugs and alcohol kind of thing. But I’m just curious for you with your story and thinking back on like defensive coping and in your journey, your transformation, your own kind of change from this, like do you have a sense of like what role defensive coping mechanisms and getting past them changed? Like what was that like for you?
KIM: Yeah, I think underneath the defensive coping with drugs or alcohol or, you know, later in my life, you know, with prescription drugs, you know, just kind of some level of avoidance of – really all of it is, is underneath I was really, really suffering.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: And even just talking about it, I’m feeling a little emotional because I was suffering so much as a kid and I didn’t know what to do with that suffering, so I didn’t know how to talk about it with someone. I didn’t, you know, the don’t talk, don’t feel, don’t trust.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: Well then it was very hard for me to trust other people.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: It was hard to feel my feelings.
JEFF: So did other people kind of see you as: “Oh! She is not a problem. She is keeping it together. She’s -“
KIM: Yes, that is exactly what happened. Even though I was experimenting, I wasn’t acting out. I wasn’t getting in trouble at school. I wasn’t in detention every day. You know, I wasn’t – my behaviors weren’t indicative of somebody who has a drug and alcohol problem or behavior problems. Actually if anything, people in high school or even in college, you know, that I was nice and kind and outgoing, but really inside I was just lost.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: And I wanted so bad, and even with my dad being sober, I wanted so bad to connect with him.
JEFF: Yeah. So how did you go – can you talk a little bit about, from this lost place to like, what happened next and how did you get out of the lost place?
KIM: Yeah, so that’s a very long story, but I’ll try and keep it short. You know, I did start my own adult children of alcoholics work in my 20’s.
JEFF: In your 20’s, after that conversation?
KIM: Mmhhmm. After that conversation, I worked the steps. I sought some therapy. I did some family work with my mom, and my dad and I had very healing conversations. It wasn’t until about six months before he passed away that we had probably the most open, honest, he made amends.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: There was a real touching experience where we talked about his addiction. We talked about the reason he got sober is child protective services was going to take me away.
JEFF: Ah ha.
KIM: And I had no idea. No one had talked to me about it. So here I am, you know, 37 years old learning about his addiction.
JEFF: Right. And is that when you learned about this child protective services thing?
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: At 37 years old?
KIM: At 37.
JEFF: So wow. I mean, talk about secrets.
KIM: Talk about secrets. And then I found my way, which I know this is not a coincidence working at the Betty Ford Children’s Program.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: I was already, you know, trying to, you know, heal some more wounds that I hadn’t even looked at.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: And in this obviously it’s probably no surprise I got into the field that I’m in, right?
JEFF: Right. Right.
KIM: But working there and, you know, just seeing how vulnerable and brave these kids are and their parents and the healing that takes place. It was so incredible to be a part of all of these kids and their family’s journey, –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – but it helped me.
JEFF: It was more than you could just relate.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: Like I’ve had steak and potatoes and green beans before too, I know what that’s like. A little bit more than that, I mean –
KIM: Right. Exactly, but yeah, I knew – when these kids would talk about what it was like for them at home. Yeah, it would just be like: “Oh my gosh! I would have loved to have a program like this when I was 8.”
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: And what gave me so much more compassion for my dad and my family is watching these parents like with their own shame and their own, you know, their own guilt that they carry, their own family backgrounds.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: It’s like, wow.
JEFF: What I mean in some of the things I’ve observed with that program and some of like times I’ve seen Jerry talk about it, it’s like it seems like kids can actually initiate a healing process in the family via that program.
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: And that is like blows my mind.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: And, you know, what your doing with teens, which Betty Ford is what, like 7-12?
KIM: Right.
JEFF: And then what you want to do is the gap between 12 and what? 18?
KIM: 18. 13-18.
JEFF: 13-18, yeah. Yeah – yeah. And yeah, I can just – I think about it for myself really, like where I was as a teenager and, you know, probably like closer to 18, I was probably starting to smoke pot or something like that. But as a teenager, like I was totally clueless about a lot of this stuff that was going on. And like my mom, she’s no longer alive, but there were things that she just never talked about and I asked about and she just looked down at the ground and started crying. And, you know, so it gave me information but there was no detail.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: And it’s like, that’s just so, it just feels so empty and like, but wait a minute, that’s part of my history, that’s my grandfather. That’s like, I’m here too kind of thing and you’re closing me out. That’s kind of the way it felt for me.
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: What was like –
KIM: The same thing, I felt really closed out. And I don’t think I knew this, but I remember when he got home from rehab I was like: “Oh, I’m going to have a more involved, happy, energetic dad –
JEFF: That was your thinking?
KIM: – to spend time with me now.” And that’s not at all what happened.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: I love my dad. And he, you know, raising a teenage girl on his own, like I’m sure he had lots of challenges with me just in my high school drama and my –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – you know, my mood swings and all of those things that happen as teens. But he was not, even though he was sober, he wasn’t available because he was trying to figure it out –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – and he didn’t know how to talk to each other about it –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – at all.
JEFF: I think about like some stuff I learned from, you know, some of Doctor Gabor Mate stuff about trauma. And it’s like it isn’t just things that shouldn’t have happened like abuse or being hit or something that’s so physical and it’s so obvious, but it’s the things that should have happened but didn’t.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: Like that neglect kind of thing. And as a child, we don’t really know that it’s something that should happen that didn’t, and it may be many years later before we even know.
KIM: Right. And, you know, when you’re battling with that of something that didn’t happen, a lot of times with kids and teens is, and this is just a family recovery in general, that when there’s a crisis in the family, every person in that family is trying to step in and help the loved one that’s sick and everybody takes on a certain role, right? And all of a sudden, recovery happens and it’s like: “Okay, now what’s my role?” And when you think of a teen and developmentally think of Erik Erikson stages of development.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: A teens development is Identity versus Role Confusion. And so –
JEFF: And that’s without addiction.
KIM: Without addiction. So it’s – okay, I’m trying to figure out my role at home. I’m finding myself worried about my dad, trying to caretake my dad yet we’re not talking about it, then I met school –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – trying to figure out my role with my peers –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – and with relationships and –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – all of that. It’s such a hard time.
JEFF: So Kim, I think about like, so then in this program that you’ve created for teens, how like priceless it is to kind of like created an environment where it’s safe, where that’s invited, where they hear other people sharing about what it’s like for them.
KIM: Oh, it’s so, because I think back Jeff to my teen years, I didn’t know and there probably were some of my friends who had this gone on at home, but I didn’t know one person who had an alcoholic parent or drug addiction
JEFF: Oh my gosh!
KIM: We just didn’t talk about it. I –
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah.
KIM: have no other teens to talk about it with. No –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – none of my friends to talk about it with because it was not really talked about from the outside. Their families looked great and very different than mine. And so I was embarrassed and ashamed, so I wasn’t going to bring up –
JEFF: Right. Yeah.
KIM: – you know, growing up with an alcoholic.
JEFF: Yeah. So then the creation of this program, I mean that’s a very good point. Like one of the challenges is how do you invite, like this may be like the marketing of the program or something like that. But how do you create conditions or you know, start to build a bridge towards, you know, I guess it would be family members or teens and it’s like I can relate to the challenge you’re taking on –
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: – you know, just in with what I’m doing. But like do you have some ideas there? Because I clearly – it isn’t like I know when I’m fishing for you –
KIM: Right.
JEFF: – to say it because I’m kind of clueless here.
KIM: Right. So, what I’ve tried to do is, you know, I am all about connection and relationships. So the relationships I’ve built within people in the community –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – hopefully that way there could be word of mouth, you know, just promoting my program. And for me this is a passion. This is – there is nothing like this in the community and I want there to be something for these teens. And I want them to not feel the isolation I felt. And I think it’s important, you know, that teens have, you know, some kind of role model, whether it’s me doing the group or it’s a teacher. But that they have some role model like –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – somebody in their life that believes in them. You know, in a perfect world, their parents are sober and they’re getting better and they’re that role model of recovery. But we know not all parents and families are going to be sober. And so what about the teens whose parents aren’t sober and these teens are suffering.
JEFF: Right. So let me just kind of like, have you thought about schools? Going to schools and doing like a program or a circle or something like that? I just like as you were talking Kim, I kind of saw this like auditorium and this circle and, you know, you creating something right there. And so like what about schools, like where you at with that?
KIM: You know, I have definitely thought of that. And actually my youngest daughter is the one who told me that like: “Mom, you should be going into the schools.” And I love – I just love teens, cause I, you know, they’re so deep and they’re so curious about the world and they have such an imagination, such great ideas. So as I’ve been developing this program, I’ve been asking my daughter and her friends.
JEFF: Oh, yeah.
KIM: Give me your ideas, like you’re the teen, you know, and the funny thing they’ll tell me is like: “Mom stop using the word cool, or groovy, like that’s out. You know, you’re such a dork. You need to be like hip.”
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: And even if I said hip, they’d be like: “No, that’s not the right word.” But –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – I’ve gotten lots of great suggestions from my daughter and her friends about going into the schools. So –
JEFF: Yeah – yeah.
KIM: – my hope is this fall, I can, you know, outreach on schools where I know some teens that go –
JEFF: Sure.
KIM: – to those schools.
JEFF: Yeah. And well, just as, I mean like I want to continue this conversation at another time cause I have some ideas I’d like to throw out –
KIM: Oh, I would love that –
JEFF: – for you –
KIM: – even just chatting with you these last, I don’t know, 15-20 minutes it’s like yeah, all of a sudden I’m having all these great ideas and –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – I love this kind of collaboration. And you know, I do hope that at some point I can make this into a nonprofit as well –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – and have it be able to reach all teens, you know, not just teens from a certain socioeconomic status, but every teen –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – that this is available too.
JEFF: Yeah, I mean just with the little bit that I know about – I live in a community, there’s about 42 houses here, 100 adults and about 40 or 50 kids. And, you know, one of the things I’ve heard, like I hear from some of the teens and I hear some of the stuff that goes on in families and there’s a lot of drugs and alcohol going on in a lot of the schools.
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: You know, and I live in a pretty, you know, kind of blessed place to be. I don’t live in, you know, a ghetto or something.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: So, you know, this is everywhere. And like with what you’re doing it’s – I really see the potential to kind of like create a model and have it expand –
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: – over and over kind of thing. And it’s so needed. It’s almost like a required class in like health class or a part of health class or instead of the health class or –
KIM: Right. Like telling teens just say no or having a DARE cop come, which is back in my time. You know, that wasn’t helpful at all. It was –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – I am suffering and I’m having a lot of pain and my family’s in turmoil and I don’t know how to talk about my feelings and I don’t know how to trust anyone. And I don’t know what to do with my feelings and this idea of I need something outside of me to be okay and –
JEFF: Yeah, so I mean, one thing that I want to say with this conversation, I’m reflecting on my own story a little bit, but I didn’t have active addiction in my family of origin, but it was my grandfather. And it kind of went from my grandfather to my mother’s trauma, which she never talked about. And she had kind of like some meeting stuff, which like when I grew up that was not seen as addiction at all. But now we know differently.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: But it’s like this trickle down went from my grandfather to my mother to me. And how I see that I took it on was these defensive coping mechanisms, like how I related to other people and kind of like a lack of self esteem and just kind of like not trusting. Like not knowing what to trust and trusting someone else’s word even though –
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: – like they said something and then it didn’t happen over and over and over and over. And here I was trusting it again and again and I was feeling hurt on the inside again and again and again. And so like that kind of like that’s one way, like a specific that I refer to as the defensive coping. But like then growing up as a young adult and bringing that type of coping or relationships into like adult relationship –
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: – and thinking that I was doing a good job because I didn’t know any better.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: And so it’s like, what I see you doing is so important because our world needs people who actively are engaged and can communicate with one another and participate and contribute in the world. And when we have these defensive coping mechanisms we’re contracted, closed down, we’re scared shitless.
KIM: Right. Oh gosh, yeah.
JEFF: You know? So I really appreciate what you’re doing with the vision, with the mission. I, you know, just in with what I’m doing, I get kind of the challenge and that this isn’t going to be easy for you and –
KIM: Right.
JEFF: – so I see you as kindred spirit from that standpoint. And so specifics about the program, did you want to talk a little bit more about that?
KIM: Sure. But I do want to say before I get into the specifics. So my aunt passed away last July and she had 30 something years of sobriety and a conversation I had with her before she passed away. We were talking about the teen program. And she was like: “Kim, promise me –
JEFF: Oh my god.
KIM: – you’ll do this. Just promise me.” Because she was an active alcoholic addict who found recovery –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – who had children, my cousins who, I mean, it’s really affected my entire family. And her way of dealing with her recovery was she was a sponsor. She just loves people. And she wanted families to heal. And this was –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – so I have to say it before I say that this program is dedicated to her.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: I have it on my website. I am going to fulfill the promise I made to her and to me, because this is something that I feel led to do.
JEFF: Wow, so how much more of a motivation or driving force passion could a person have to do something in the world. Right?
KIM: Absolutely. So that’s kind of after her passing. And I kind of reflected on her recovery and the challenges I faced being a child of an alcoholic and the teen and my cousins and my whole family. You know, I’ve kind of taken this model that kind of started at Cedar. So Alyssa Dreyer and myself did kind of a pilot teen program at Cedar and we kind of put it together. And, you know, we were unable to continue that there and I thought, you know, the community needs this so I’m going to make it more available. And it is an eight week program that meets for an hour and a half for eight weeks. It is psychoeducation very much like the Betty Ford Children’s –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – but geared more towards teens and obviously incorporating some of the other struggles that teens are having in their life, you know, under the – okay, this is going on my family and I’m struggling with my peers and there was a suicide at my high school and I have a friend who’s now addicted to drugs and I don’t know my role in my family that they have a place that they can not only talk about what’s going on in their family, but just what’s going on in their life.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: And being able to connect with other teens but also get the education around addiction that’s provided in a teen friendly way. Not, you know, like the Children’s program obviously –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – that’s geared for kids and this curriculum is for teens.
JEFF: So it’s a combination of education.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: And experiences like sitting in a circle and going around and having an opportunity to answer a question or share about something.
KIM: Yeah. And just processing, you know, being able to process. The one thing I learned doing the teen program with Alyssa at Cedar is, I mean, you would think because teens kind of have this stereotype of they’re hard to get through to, you know. They think they know everything like all of those kind of, you know, stereotypes or, and obviously teens have, you know, they’re trying to figure things out. And, but there are so – like within an hour of doing the program, they go deep.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: Like they want to talk about deep things. I was –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – blown away of after an hour of just kind of checking in that they went to –
JEFF: Yeah – yeah.
KIM: – the deep places and –
JEFF: Wow. Well, I mean when I hear that, one of the things that I think of is that you and Alyssa must’ve done a really good job to create and contain a safety.
KIM: Oh, that is so important. And that there’s not judgment.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: We’re not, you know, this is how I’d like to present my skills in working with teens is like, I’m not here to be, to tell you what to do and this is how, you know, I’m there to help facilitate, you know, processing of feelings, providing the education.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: Letting them know that they’re awesome. They’re incredible, and they have talents and gifts and that there’s adults that believe in them.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: And being able – the most powerful part, which we see at the children’s program is we’re alone.
JEFF: Right. Yeah.
KIM: They can develop friendships and connection and going, oh, I experienced that too.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: Oh, I know what that’s like.
JEFF: Right. One of the things I’ve seen with, and I’m sure you’ve seen this too many times Kim, I’m guessing anyhow. But that is in a lot of families there’s always one person who seems to be the emotional lightning rod and feel more feelings than anybody else in the family. And you know, and just as you’re talking, I’m imagining like what if that person is a teen? And oftentimes that person is a teen and they’re feeling all these emotions, but they’re in this environment of secrecy and they’re scared to death that if they say something, someone may be hurt or die or it can, like their caretaker could be gone and you know, but yet they’re this emotional lightning rod and how do they deal with those feelings. And a lot of times we know how they deal with those feelings.
KIM: Right, right. And the other thing I wanted to incorporate into this program is a caregiver component for the parents. So, you know, the first session and the last session, I am going to involve the parents.
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah.
KIM: But I attended a training last week called Emotionally Focused Family Therapy. And I was so impressed by the trainers and the information that, you know, I’m hoping to start a parent caregiver, I don’t know, maybe a couple of sessions or group or something for the parents of these teens of okay, you know, if they’re in recovery, how do I support my teen?
JEFF: Yeah. Yeah – yeah.
KIM: How do I support them in healthy ways? How do I listen? How do I validate their feelings? How when they’re angry, how do I talk with them when they are shut down and not wanting to talk to me? How can I support them and how do I take care of myself in my own recovery? So –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: -yeah. I have lots of ideas.
JEFF: So like, you know, creating conditions where the parent and teen can communicate right there.
KIM: Right there and have, you know, some actual tools to –
JEFF: To where they can do this at home too.
KIM: Right,
JEFF: Or start to practice this at home.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: Yeah. The other thing that I want to ask about this program, so like, I was real clear on the distinction. This is for, you know, teens who grew up with addiction but not teens who are in addiction. But it’s like, do you also give education about like having a glass of wine or smoking a joint or like they may be curious. Like they may get into addiction sometime after being a teen, like I’m just curious, like, can you talk a little bit about that?
KIM: So, as far as the curriculum, I don’t have necessarily education around specifics around drugs and alcohol, but kind of creating, you know, a level of safety –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – open dialogue, time for questions and answer.
JEFF: Well, and, you know, just as I asked the question, the other thing I’m thinking of is, you know, keeping a sharp ear to the curious question about: “Oh, I saw these people smoking a joint and it really looked kind of cool or whatever.” And that could be an opening to continue dialogue.
KIM: Right. Where they feel safe enough to –
JEFF: Right.
KIM: – share, you know, I’ve been considering doing this. And because I saw someone doing it, I think it’s cool and that they can talk about it and then I can obviously provide some education. But what I always want to do is get a little deeper, like it’s that whole – so I want to try this because it’s cool, but here I am looking for something outside of me to be okay.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: What about it is cool? What am I feeling at that time? What’s going on in my life? So, yeah. I think just being able to create a safe place where they can ask these kinds of questions and to be able to voice their concerns of, you know, a lot of teens might have fears. Oh, and I know I did.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: Especially at 13, 14, you know, I’m like, I made a pact. I am never going to do drugs or alcohol. I remember that pact. And then a couple of years later –
JEFF: It was a different deal.
KIM: It’s a whole different deal. And had I been able to really talk about that and what was going on that would have, I would have been so nice to have had some trusted people to, I actually did, you know, I think what’s important to with teens is that, you know, if you look at the ACE study –
JEFF: Right. Right.
KIM: – that you could –
JEFF: Adverse Childhood Experiences.
KIM: Adverse Childhood Experiences, that you can have a lot of trauma. But man, if you have one, two, three like adults that believe in you –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – and they’re there day in and day out –
JEFF: And you feel they are there.
KIM: And I was very, very blessed and fortunate that I had, two people, Donny and Paula Clements. I will even send her this podcast because I think they saved my life.
JEFF: Ah. Wow.
KIM: And they weren’t my family. They were just very loving, kind people. So yeah, just –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: You know, even if a teen doesn’t have that safe person that they can come to this group and have a caring, loving adult where they can ask these questions. They can process: “Hey, I’ve been experimenting with pot.”
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: Know, obviously I’m also trained that there might be a time when if I have a teen in my program that they might need more care than what I’m provided. They might need substance abuse treatment and I’m trained to be able to –
JEFF: Of course.
KIM: – identify that and being able –
JEFF: You’re more than trained.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: Oh my god. Like I know some of your history, your work history and so yeah. Oh my gosh Kim, this is exciting. And it’s like kind of going into new territory. And it also changes how people think because really people don’t think about the impact of their teen and what you’re encouraging people to do is to expand their circle of concern to include their teens.
KIM: Right. And the thing I haven’t mentioned too is for the parents.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: Like I said at the Children’s program when I would see those very brave parents.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: I know there’s so much shame and guilt. I’m a parent and that is my biggest soft spot are my children.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: And you know, for parents to take that step because it does take courage to be vulnerable and look at –
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: – you know, I’m going to find a new way of showing up for my teen.
JEFF: Right.
KIM: That takes so much courage.
JEFF: So one thing that I want to say to families who are listening this, specifically parents who have a teen is that what you’re doing is creating a safe space, not only for the teen but for the parents.
KIM: Absolutely. There is no judgment.
JEFF: You know, and a lot of our history specifically with addiction, there’s judgment in the language –
KIM: Right.
JEFF: – there’s judgment in the thinking, there’s judgment in the standard of care or something like that. But it’s like, what I really like about what you’re doing is the history that you have, the reason why you’re doing it, the motivation. And it’s like I can really see where that will, you know, help you to stay focused on what’s really important as things evolve and as things change.
KIM: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the other thing I definitely want our listeners to hear is my mission in this is to make it affordable for anyone and everyone just like the Children’s Program, like I won’t turn away a teen.
JEFF: Well I hope you get grant money to be able to do that and it just doesn’t, you know, come out of your own money –
KIM: Right. [laughs]
JEFF: – to do that. Seriously because that is important. And I’m like, you know, here I am probably projecting on you, you know, you got to eat –
KIM: Yeah. I do have children.
JEFF: – you’ve got to take care of yourself, you know. And like the more you can take care of yourself, the more you can really be present with people that you work with.
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: And I really hope things come together to where, you know, people that don’t have the funds to get support for their teen can get support for their teen.
KIM: Right. That’s my mission.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: That is my mission.
JEFF: Yeah – yeah. Great. Wow. Well, so is there anything that you wanted to share that I haven’t asked about or we haven’t touched on?
KIM: Not that I can think of. I do have a website that has a little bit about me and my services outside of the teen.
JEFF: That’s what I was going to ask next. How could people get ahold of you?
KIM: So it’s really easy. It’s www.Coloradoteenfamilycenter.org
JEFF: Coloradoteenfamilycenter.org
KIM: .org
JEFF: All right. Wow. Well you’re setting yourself up for the nonprofit kind of status there.
KIM: I am, that is my dream. And I do believe that it will all come together when it’s meant to and how it’s meant to and I’m enjoying thoroughly the journey.
JEFF: Yeah. And so this will take place in Aurora? These groups will take place in Aurora?
KIM: For now I’m looking to expand to Central Denver. Right now the groups are at the Betty Ford Children’s program. They’re kind enough to let me use their space on either Monday or Tuesday and my next group will probably take place some time this summer. So I’ll have new dates posted on my website.
JEFF: Yeah.
KIM: And then the other services that I provide, but my hope is to expand a little bit more to Central Denver as well.
JEFF: So I know I asked about this beforehand, but I’m gonna like ask about it again and that is I really see the potential for, you know, having some kind of online thing here.
KIM: Yeah.
JEFF: One because teens are very, teens are probably more competent online?
KIM: Right. And they’re very busy and it’s hard to get places so.
JEFF: You know, but I really see the online thing as something that has a lot of potential to connect teens and do it in the way that they connect.
KIM: Right.
JEFF: You know? So, yeah. I want to say thank you very much for coming up here for doing this interview in person. This is an in person interview here.
KIM: [laughs]
JEFF: This is like not the norm for me, so thank you very much.
KIM: Thank you Jeff.
JEFF: I appreciate it.